Dec 02, 2025 Committee of the Whole Meeting

[1. Resolution recommending approval by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission of the Banquet Facility Permit application for Doyle Operations, LLC dba Distinctive Catering by Branns located at 401 Hall St SW]

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OF BUSINESS IS A RESOLUTION REGARDING LIQUOR CONTROL. MADAM CLERK, IF YOU COULD. THANK YOU.

MAYOR BRANDS IS SEEKING A LIQUOR LICENSE FOR THEIR SUPPORT. THANK YOU. BRANDS IS SEEKING A LIQUOR LICENSE FOR THEIR NEW CATERING FACILITY ON HALL STREET. ALL THE VETTING WAS MET. ANY DISCUSSION? COLLEAGUES SEEING? NONE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL

[2. Resolution establishing an Industrial Development District for Falk Material Wool at 1920 Northridge Drive NW in the Walkerview Industrial Park]

[3. Resolution approving an application for a 12-year Industrial Facilities Exemption Certificate, pursuant to PA 198 of 1974, for Falk Material Wool for a $8.9 Million project located at 1920 Northridge Drive NW in the Walkerview Industrial Park]

[4. Resolution approving an amendment to the Brownfield Plan of the City of Grand Rapids Brownfield Redevelopment Authority for 125 Ottawa Redevelopment Project]

AND. WILL ALLOW US TO SUBMIT THE WORK PLAN, THE ACT 381 WORK PLAN TO THE STATE HOUSING AUTHORITY. MR. TOMORROW, ASSUMING THAT SUPPORTED AT OUR BROWNFIELD REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY MEETING AND THEN AT THE NEXT AT THE NEXT COMMISSION MEETING, YOU'LL SEE THE NEIGHBORHOOD ENTERPRISE ZONE DISTRICT BACK BEFORE YOU. GREAT. ANY DISCUSSION? COLLEAGUES? SEEING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT BRINGS

[1. Update on City Attorney Search by Mosaic Public Partners on Recruitment Process and Timeline]

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YOUR MIC MIGHT NOT BE ON. SORRY. GOOD MORNING. BARBARA, INTERIM HR LEADER FOR THE CITY OF GRAND RAPIDS. AS YOU ARE AWARE, WE ARE BEGINNING THE RECRUITMENT PROCESS FOR OUR NEXT CITY ATTORNEY, ONE OF OUR MOST CRITICAL APPOINTED LEADERSHIP POSITIONS TO SUPPORT A COMPREHENSIVE, PROFESSIONAL AND COMPETITIVE SEARCH. WE HAVE ENGAGED MOSAIC PUBLIC PARTNERS TO LEAD THE EFFORT. TODAY, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO MR. GREG NELSON FROM MOSAIC, WHO WILL BE LEADING THE EFFORT ON BEHALF OF THE CITY. GREG HAS A STRONG BACKGROUND IN EXECUTIVE LEVEL PUBLIC SECTOR RECRUITMENT AND BRINGS DEEP KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNIQUE SKILLS AND LEADERSHIP QUALITIES REQUIRED FOR A SUCCESSFUL CITY ATTORNEY. TODAY, HE WILL PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF THE RECRUITMENT PROCESS AND THE TIMELINE. WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING CLOSELY WITH GREG THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS AND ENSURING THAT OUR APPROACH IS THOROUGH, TRANSPARENT AND ALIGNED WITH THE NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS OF THE COMMISSION AND THE COMMUNITY. WITH THAT, PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING GREG NELSON. WELL. THANK YOU AND GOOD MORNING. AS A NATIVE OF PEORIA, ILLINOIS, THE WEATHER FEELS VERY FAMILIAR, SO IT'S GOOD TO BE IN GRAND RAPIDS. I'VE MET VERY NICE PEOPLE ALREADY TODAY AND LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE COMMISSION ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT RECRUITMENT. IT'S OFTEN SAID THAT THE APPOINTMENTS OF THE COMMISSIONERS ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST DECISIONS YOU'LL HAVE TO MAKE. YOU DON'T HAVE MANY POSITIONS THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO SELECT, BUT THE CITY ATTORNEY IS A VERY KEY ONE. AND WE'RE HERE TO WORK WITH YOU IN PARTNERSHIP TO HAVE A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME. I, I WON'T BELABOR THE INTRODUCTION. I THANK YOU FOR THAT OVAL, BUT I WANT TO JUST KIND OF GET INTO WHAT TO EXPECT OVER THE COURSE OF THIS RECRUITMENT AND HOW THE CITY COMMISSION WILL BE VERY HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS AND WHAT TO EXPECT GOING FORWARD. SO I LIKE TO THINK OF THREE PHASES OF A SEARCH, AND WE'LL GO THROUGH THOSE IN A MOMENT. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE ONE TO DEVELOP A CANDIDATE PROFILE, TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU, AS A CITY COMMISSION, ARE LOOKING FOR AND NEED IN YOUR NEXT CITY ATTORNEY. ONE IS TO ACTUALLY DO THE WORK OF OUTREACH AND RECRUITING.

THAT'S PROBABLY THE PART THAT EVERYONE GOES TO RIGHT AWAY. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A SEARCH IS GENERATING CANDIDATES AND HAVING GOOD, DIVERSE OPTIONS FOR YOU TO CONSIDER AT THE END.

AND THEN THIRD IS TO HAVE THAT SELECTION PROCESS, A THOUGHTFUL SELECTION PROCESS THAT'S GOING TO YIELD YOU THE CANDIDATE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. AND THEN WE'LL GO THROUGH THE TIMELINE AND NEXT STEPS IN THE PRESENTATION. AGAIN, FIRST PART OF THE RECRUITMENT IS GOING TO OCCUR MOSTLY IN DECEMBER. AND THAT'S DEVELOPING THE CANDIDATE PROFILE. SECOND PART WILL BE EARLY 26 OUTREACH AND RECRUITING. AND THE THIRD PART THE SELECTION PROCESS WILL BE LIKELY AROUND MARCH. AND WE'LL GO THROUGH THE TIMELINE IN MORE DETAIL. SO THE PURPOSE OF THE CANDIDATE PROFILE, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE TO YOU, IS TO REALLY CALL OUT AS SPECIFICALLY AS POSSIBLE, IDENTIFY WHAT YOU AS A COMMISSION, ARE LOOKING FOR IN YOUR NEXT CITY ATTORNEY.

NO TWO CITIES ARE THE SAME, AND NO TWO SEARCHES ARE THE SAME, EVEN IN THE SAME CITY DURING DIFFERENT PERIODS OF TIME, BECAUSE YOUR NEEDS CHANGE. AND SO I REALLY WANT TO SPEND TIME LISTENING AND LEARNING AND UNDERSTANDING FROM ALL OF YOU AND IDENTIFIED STAKEHOLDERS OF WHAT THE SPECIFIC ATTRIBUTES WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR IN CANDIDATES. AND. AND SO WE'LL MEET WITH EACH MEMBER OF YOU ONE ON ONE. WE ALSO WANT TO MEET WITH KEY MEMBERS OF THE CITY STAFF, CITY MANAGER AND OTHER KEY EXECUTIVES JUST BECAUSE THEY WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THEY HAVE A PERSPECTIVE TO BE CONSIDERED, AND THEN OTHER KEY STAKEHOLDERS. AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW YOUR CITY LIKE YOU KNOW YOUR CITY. SO I'M WORKING WITH YOUR TEAM TO HELP IDENTIFY THOSE KEY STAKEHOLDERS. SO AFTER TODAY, I THINK THERE ARE THREE MAJOR TOUCH POINTS FOR THE CITY COMMISSION. ONE IS IN PROVIDING INPUT IN THE CANDIDATE PROFILE DEVELOPMENT. AND I'LL BE SCHEDULING TIME TO MEET WITH EACH OF YOU ONE ON ONE TO GET YOUR INDIVIDUAL PERSPECTIVES AND TALK ABOUT THE SEARCH PROCESS. BUT MOSTLY FOR ME TO LISTEN AND LEARN. AND AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS, CLOSE TO THE END OF THE MONTH, WE'RE

[00:10:06]

WE WANT YOU AS A CITY COMMISSION, OUR CLIENT TO HAVE CHOICES OF CANDIDATES. WE ARE SOMEWHAT LIMITED BY YOUR CHARTER THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS TO BE ABLE TO PRACTICE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN. AND WHILE WE WILL ADVERTISE NATIONALLY, LOOKING FOR THOSE ATTORNEYS THAT HAVE MAYBE BEEN IN MICHIGAN, MAYBE LEFT AND CAME BACK, OUR MOST FRUITFUL GROUND WILL BE WITHIN THE STATE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE MOST OF THE QUALIFIED CANDIDATES WILL RESIDE. AND THINGS WE DO TO GENERATE CANDIDATES. WE SOURCE CANDIDATES FROM FIVE PRIMARY AREAS. ONE IS A PASSIVE WAY, WHICH IS ADVERTISING, WHICH I JUST TOUCHED UPON.

WE'RE GOING TO DO AN ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN THAT'S DESIGNED TO ATTRACT THE CANDIDATES THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO RECRUIT. TWO IS GOING TO BE DIRECT OUTREACH, INTERACTING WITH PEOPLE THAT WE EITHER KNOW OR HAVE CONNECTED WITH IN THE PAST, EITHER AS CANDIDATES OR SEEKING NOMINATIONS, ASKING THEM IF THEY CAN RECOMMEND GOOD CANDIDATES AS WELL. SO THAT'S TWO AND THREE FOR WHICH IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE OUR MOST FRUITFUL IN THIS SEARCH IS THROUGH RESEARCH. WE'RE GOING TO IDENTIFY EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT WE WANT TO TRY TO REACH AND DO DIRECT OUTREACH TO THEM. OFTENTIMES, THE BEST CANDIDATES ARE NOT LOOKING FOR WORK. THEY DON'T GO HOME AND LOOK AT THE JOB BOARDS. THEY ARE BUSY DOING GOOD WORK WHERE THEY'RE AT, AND WE NEED TO ENGAGE THEM AND START A CONVERSATION ABOUT GRAND RAPIDS AND WHY THIS MAY BE A GOOD MATCH FOR THEM. AND THEN FIVE, INCREASINGLY, OVER TIME, NO SURPRISE SOCIAL MEDIA LINKEDIN CAMPAIGNS ARE ALSO VERY SUCCESSFUL AS WELL. IN THIS OUTREACH AND RECRUITING PHASE, I'LL BE AVAILABLE TO PROVIDE UPDATES THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. WE'RE GOING TO WORK REALLY HARD TO MANAGE CANDIDATE CONFIDENTIALITY AS LONG AS WE CAN IN THIS PROCESS. AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, NAMES WILL BECOME PUBLIC AT SOME POINT, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT CANDIDATES KNOW WHEN THAT WILL HAPPEN, THAT THERE ARE NO SURPRISES, AND AT THE SAME TIME, TRY TO ATTRACT THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF TALENT THAT WE CAN. AND THAT'S ALWAYS A CHALLENGE, BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T ALWAYS WANT THEIR CURRENT EMPLOYERS TO KNOW THAT THEY MIGHT BE LOOKING AT ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY. SO WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH YOUR LEGAL STAFF TO IDENTIFY WHERE THAT RIGHT BALANCE IS AND MANAGE CONFIDENTIALITY. AND THE OUTREACH AND RECRUITING SHOULD OCCUR THROUGH JANUARY AND FEBRUARY. THE SELECTION PROCESS, AGAIN, IS TO DESIGN OUR. THE GOAL IS TO DESIGN A THOUGHTFUL INTERVIEW AND SELECTION PROCESS THAT IS GOING TO GIVE THE CITY COMMISSION THE BEST INFORMATION POSSIBLE TO HELP SELECT. I WILL BE HERE AGAIN ON SITE TO FACILITATE THAT PROCESS AND HELP YOU KIND OF JUST KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE CANDIDATE PROFILE AND THE ATTRIBUTES THAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON AS WE ARE SELECTING CANDIDATES.

AND THIS IS ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY WHERE THE FULL CITY COMMISSION NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED, AND REALLY EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE THERE AS PART OF THIS PROCESS. ONCE THAT PROCESS IS YIELD YIELDED. THE CANDIDATE THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN, WE HAVE SOME FINAL VETTING TO DO. WE'LL DO MUCH OF IT ALONG THE WAY. BUT THERE ARE SOME FINAL STEPS. AND THEN I'LL WORK WITH THE CITY AND THE HR TEAM THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE CANDIDATE, WITH THE GOAL OF HAVING AN APPOINTMENT FOR YOUR NEXT CITY ATTORNEY IN APRIL. I PROVIDED IN THE PRESENTATION IN THE SLIDE DECK IN VERY SMALL PRINT ON THE SCREEN, BUT SOME MORE SPECIFIC DATES AND TARGETS OF WHAT WE JUST COVERED IN THE PROCESS. SO AGAIN, NEXT STEPS ARE GOING TO BE FOR ME TO SCHEDULE MEETINGS WITH EACH OF YOU WITH IDENTIFIED STAKEHOLDERS. WE'VE ALREADY

[00:15:04]

SO I THINK TIMING FOR THE SEARCH IS IDEAL. HONESTLY, IF WE WERE A COUPLE OF MONTHS EARLIER, TIMING COULD BE A CHALLENGE, BUT I THINK TIMING IS IDEAL IN THIS CASE, AND I'LL PAUSE THERE AND SEE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FROM. YES. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING.

THANK YOU FOR THE OVERVIEW. I'D LIKE TO ZONE IN A LITTLE BIT ON WHAT YOU MENTIONED RELATED TO OUTREACH AND RECRUITING. YOU MENTIONED THE ROLE OF MICHIGAN BASED CANDIDATES. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE ARE SOME SORT OF PERIOD IN WHICH IF FOLKS DON'T HAVE THEIR LICENSE IN PERIOD IN MICHIGAN, THEY CAN OBTAIN IT. AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S PRETTY REASONABLE. AND SO WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, I DON'T WANT THE MAJORITY OF OUR SEARCH TO TO FOCUS ON MICHIGAN.

I TRULY WOULD LIKE A TRUE NATIONAL SEARCH. SO I WONDER IF YOU COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT MORE TO THAT. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT? AND I'VE ALREADY STARTED SOME CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT WITH YOUR LEGAL TEAM. EARLY CONVERSATIONS ARE THAT IF SOMEONE IS ABLE TO OBTAIN THEIR MICHIGAN LICENSE THROUGH RECIPROCITY, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE LICENSED IN ANOTHER STATE, AND THAT STATE HAS AN ARRANGEMENT WITH THE STATE OF MICHIGAN WHERE THEY CAN GET THEIR LICENSE THROUGH RECIPROCITY. THAT COULD BE A VIABLE CANDIDATE, BECAUSE THAT PROCESS IS RELATIVELY EFFICIENT. IF SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO THROUGH THE STEPS TO GET THEIR LICENSE FOR THE FIRST TIME, KIND OF THE FULL STEPS, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE PROBLEMATIC, BECAUSE YOUR CHARTER REQUIRES THAT IN ORDER FOR YOU TO APPOINT YOUR CITY ATTORNEY, THAT THAT ATTORNEY BE ADMITTED TO PRACTICE IN MICHIGAN. AND SO WE COULD CERTAINLY FOCUS BROADER. AND I'LL GAIN THAT DIRECTION FROM ALL OF YOU MEETING WITH YOU AND HOPING TO ATTRACT CANDIDATES THAT CAN COME INTO MICHIGAN THROUGH RECIPROCITY. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY STATES HAVE THAT WITH MICHIGAN? I DON'T KNOW, BUT WE'LL WE'LL KNOW FOR SURE.

WE'RE JUST IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THIS, BUT WE'LL I'D BE CURIOUS TO KNOW THAT. YEAH. GO AHEAD. ONE MORE IF YOU EXPAND ON THIS. YEAH. ACTUALLY. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COLLEAGUES, I'D LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER. AND, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD HAVE SOME CONSENSUS ON.

BUT THE ANSWER, COMMISSIONER PURDUE IS NOT MANY. BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT I THINK THERE'S A QUESTION OF WHETHER WE WANT TO TAKE A MORE, RELATIVELY MORE AGGRESSIVE APPROACH HERE OR RELATIVELY MORE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH TO HOW WE INTERPRET THE CHARTER. SO THE CHARTER IS SAYING SOMEONE HAS TO CAN'T BE APPOINTED WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO PRACTICE IN MICHIGAN IS UNAMBIGUOUS ON A FIRST CUT. ON THE OTHER HAND, EVERY LAW FIRM IN AMERICA HIRES PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T PASSED THE BAR AND THEN HOPES THAT THEY WILL PASS THE BAR. SO IT WOULD PROBABLY IF WE WERE TO CHOOSE, FOR EXAMPLE, JUST GIVE A HYPOTHETICAL SOMEONE WHO PRACTICED FOR 30 YEARS IN NEW JERSEY MOVED HERE AND, YOU KNOW, BECAME A PASTOR FOR TEN YEARS AND DECIDED THEY WANTED TO BE OUR CITY ATTORNEY. NEW JERSEY DOESN'T HAVE RECIPROCITY, SO THEY'D HAVE TO GO TAKE THE BAR. AND THE BAR IS ONLY ONLY GIVEN A COUPLE TIMES A YEAR. SO THAT LENGTHENS THE PROCESS. AND THEN THEY HAVE TO THE STATE BAR HAS TO BURY YOUR APPLICATION, YOUR TEST SCORES IN THE BACKYARD FOR 2 OR 3 MONTHS BEFORE THEY LOOK AT THEM. YOU'D THINK THEY'D BE ABLE TO SCORE THEM ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR, GIVEN IT'S GIVEN WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, COMPUTERS GOT INVENTED, BUT IT STILL TAKES A COUPLE MONTHS FOR YOU TO GET YOUR BAR RESULTS BACK. SO REALISTICALLY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE, IF THAT HYPOTHETICAL PERSON WANTED TO GET LICENSED IN MICHIGAN, IT'S AT LEAST A SIX MONTH PROCESS, THEN THE QUESTION IS, IF WE ALL DECIDED, YES, THIS IS THE PERFECT PERSON, THERE'S PROBABLY A WAY THAT THAT WOULD SURVIVE LEGAL MUSTER, THAT WE COULD MAKE THAT PERSON AN INTERIM, OR WE COULD HIRE THEM IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, BUT NOT HAVE THEM BE THE HEAD OF THE OFFICE AND MAKE THEIR APPOINTMENT PROVISIONAL. NOW, I'M JUST I'M JUST SPEAKING VERY, VERY I'M GETTING AHEAD OF MY SKIS A LITTLE BIT HERE BECAUSE CITY ATTORNEY HASN'T GIVEN US HASN'T GIVEN ME ANY GUIDANCE ON THAT. BUT THAT'S MY INTUITION, IS THAT THERE WOULD BE SPACE FOR US TO TO DO THAT WORKAROUND.

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AND THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU LET THAT PERSON GO BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PASS THE BAR? SO IT'S A IT'S A COMPLICATED DISCUSSION. YEAH. NO, THAT'S HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE IN PRACTICE AND SEE THE CONCERNS WITH EXTENDING. THIS PROCESS ANOTHER SIX MONTHS. SO SO THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING TO THAT. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS IS RELATED TO YOUR ADVERTISING METHODS. I JUST WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED IT SEPARATELY FROM SOCIAL MEDIA AND LINKEDIN. CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHERE THIS ADVERTISING IS? WHAT TYPE OF IS IT? IS IT PAID? WHAT'S YOUR TYPICAL REACH? JUST SAY MORE ABOUT KIND OF THE SUCCESS OF YOUR ADVERTISING WORK. SURE.

YEAH. JUST SPEAKING. GENERALLY WHEN WE DO AN EXECUTIVE SEARCH, WE DEVELOP AN ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN AND WE'RE GOING TO LOOK IN THREE GENERAL AREAS WHERE WE PLACE ADVERTISEMENTS AND THEY'RE ALL PAID ADVERTISEMENTS, AND THERE ARE GOING TO BE THOSE THAT ARE VERY SPECIFIC TO THE INDUSTRY ITSELF. SO THERE IS BOTH A INTERNATIONAL MUNICIPAL ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION THAT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO THIS FIELD OF MUNICIPAL LAW. THERE ARE OFTENTIMES STATE ASSOCIATIONS THAT ARE SIMILAR. SO THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE CATEGORY.

SECOND CATEGORY ARE GOING TO BE GENERAL GOVERNMENT SITES. AND SO FOR EXAMPLE THE INTERNATIONAL CITY COUNTY MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION WHILE ON ITS FACE IS REALLY AN ASSOCIATION FOR CITY MANAGERS, IT REALLY HAS MEMBERSHIP ACROSS ALL MUNICIPAL PROFESSIONS. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF CITY ATTORNEYS THAT ARE MEMBERS THERE AS WELL. SO THAT COULD BE ANOTHER GENERAL GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING SITE. AND THEN THIRD, WE'RE GOING TO ADVERTISE INSIGHTS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP US TO ACHIEVE A DIVERSE CANDIDATE POOL. AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE ASSOCIATIONS THAT ARE DIRECTED AT SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHICS. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE NATIONAL FORUM OF BLACK PUBLIC ADMINISTRATORS, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT HISPANIC NETWORK AND SO ON. AND WE WANT TO HIT THOSE THREE CATEGORIES AND OUR ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN.

AND THEN SEPARATELY FROM THAT, WE HAVE TIES AND PROMOTE ON LINKEDIN AS WELL. GREAT. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. SHE WAS POINTING AT ME, THAT'S WHAT. YEAH. MY THANKS FOR THANKS, COLLEAGUE. THANK YOU, MR. NELSON. WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHAT. AND SO THANK YOU FOR OUTLINING THIS OVERVIEW. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY HELPFUL TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, COLLEAGUE, YOU JUST SHARED THE EXPERIENCES OF SORT OF WE ARE DOING A NATIONAL SEARCH. YOU KNOW, FOR ME, ONE OF THE PIECES THAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS SOMEBODY WHO DOES HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH MICHIGAN STATE LAW. I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT THING TO ME. YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN. WE'RE GOVERNED BY, OBVIOUSLY, THE CHARTER AND OUR STATE LAWS HERE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF BOOMERANG EFFECTS HERE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF ACTIVITY OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE AND WHO HAVE LEFT AND WHO'VE COME BACK. MISS BEHRENS, AREN'T YOU ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE? AND THEN YOU LEFT AND YOU CAME BACK AND, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE LIKE. SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT THROUGH THAT, I WOULD ALSO SAY ALL THOSE ENTITIES THAT YOU MENTIONED, WE HAVE STRONG MEMBERSHIP IN ICMA, YOU KNOW, NFPA, ALL OF THOSE GROUPS. SO I THINK THAT'S ALSO ANOTHER POSITIVE THAT WE'VE BEEN WE'VE BEEN A SITE OF CONFERENCES AND HOSTED IN DIFFERENT AREAS. MY QUESTION WAS REALLY AROUND. SO THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF MY COMMENTS. BUT MY QUESTION WAS AROUND, YOU KNOW, DURING THAT THE OUTREACH AND RECRUITING AND THEN GETTING TO THAT TIMELINE OF. YOU KNOW, KIND OF IN BETWEEN THAT TO THE CANDIDATE SCREENING AND EVALUATION, WHAT IS A WHAT IS A TYPICAL OR, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE A GOOD SORT OF, YOU KNOW, SEARCH TO YIELD FOR A CITY OUR SIZE AND FOR THE POSITION.

OBVIOUSLY WE'VE, YOU KNOW, GETTING THAT PROFILE SALARY, ALL THOSE THINGS ARE YOU ARE YOU APOLOGIZE. COULD YOU RESTATE THE QUESTION? I'M NOT SURE IF IT WOULD BE WHAT WOULD BE A REALISTIC. YOU KNOW, I THINK I MENTIONED TO YOU TODAY, I THINK OUR MAYOR IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS DONE A HIRING AN APPOINTED INDIVIDUAL. SO THIS IS MY SIXTH YEAR, BUT I HAVEN'T I HAVEN'T BEEN A PART OF THAT PROCESS. AND SO COULD YOU SHARE FOR US WHAT WOULD BE A TYPICAL AMOUNT OF CANDIDATES THAT YOU WOULD FEEL OKAY, THIS CONSTITUTES A STRONG CANDIDATE POOL. OBVIOUSLY YOU'LL HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO APPLY THAT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, PULLED OUT.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE APPLY FOR JOBS FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS. BUT WHAT WOULD BE A REALISTIC AND SUCCESSFUL CANDIDATE POOL THAT YOU COULD GO INTO THAT SCREENING PROCESS THEN TO PRESENT TO US. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. I THOUGHT THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING. I JUST WANTED TO BE SURE. SO I HATE TO SAY IT DEPENDS, BUT IT DEPENDS. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FACTORS

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AND A LOT OF IT WILL DEPEND ON THE DIRECTION YOU AS A COMMISSION GIVE ME. AND THE ISSUE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, ABOUT THE SCOPE OF THE SEARCH AND WHERE WE'RE LOOKING ONCE I MET WITH EACH OF YOU AND HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT THAT IS AND HOW WIDE WE CAN CAST OUR NET, THAT WILL HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON MAYBE THE NUMBER OF CANDIDATES THAT DO APPLY. SO IT'S HARD TO SAY. SOME OF THESE ARE TEN OR LESS, AND SOME OF THESE ARE 30 OR MORE. A LOT OF THINGS REALLY GO INTO THAT. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO GIVE THAT PERSPECTIVE, AS YOU SAID. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A JOB WHERE, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN OUR CITY AND THEN WOULD SEE HOPEFULLY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ONE OF THE BEST RUN CITIES. YOU KNOW, WE'VE YOU KNOW, LIST ARE THAT BUT ALSO THE EXPERIENCES HERE THAT, YOU KNOW THEY'RE BRINGING A FAMILY OR OTHER INDIVIDUALS. YOU KNOW WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. YOU KNOW WHAT WHAT MAKES THE POSITION ATTRACTIVE OVERALL CERTAINLY THE WORKING ENVIRONMENT. BUT A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE ARE BRINGING AN ENTIRE FAMILY WITH THEM TOO. BUT ALSO WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, I IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE A CITY THAT IS ALSO PROMOTED TO GROW YOUR OWN AND HAVE INTERNAL CANDIDATE POOLS AS WELL. SO WE'LL BE BALANCING, YOU KNOW, THAT PIECE OF WE'RE OBVIOUSLY DOING A LARGER SEARCH. WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE INTERNAL INDIVIDUALS. BUT HOW DO WE BEST POSITION OURSELVES. SO JUST WANTED TO GIVE OURSELVES SORT OF A BASELINE TO SAY, WELL, IF IT'S TEN, YOU KNOW, AS YOU JUST SAID, IT'S QUANTITY OVER QUALITY. SO THESE TEN ARE REALLY STRONG BECAUSE WE'VE HIT THESE THINGS THAT YOU ALL SAID YOU WANTED IN THE CANDIDATE PROFILE. MAYBE ONE OF US REALLY WANT TO SEE 25 PEOPLE. SO I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE TO BALANCE OUR EXPECTATIONS IN THIS PROCESS AND UNDERSTAND TOO. ANOTHER CONSIDERATION IS I'LL BE WORKING WITH YOUR LEGAL TEAM TO IDENTIFY THE BEST BALANCE OF THAT CONFIDENTIALITY ISSUE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NECESSARILY IT'S NOT IN ANYONE'S BEST INTEREST TO HAVE PEOPLE COMPETE THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE SELECTED AND HAVE THEIR OWN CAREERS POTENTIALLY DAMAGED BY HAVING, YOU KNOW, THEIR THEIR NAMES OUT AND THEIR CURRENT EMPLOYER FINDING OUT. AND SO I'LL BE WORKING WITH YOUR TEAM ON HOW WE'LL MANAGE THAT PROCESS AND HOW MANY LIKE, REALLY VIABLE CANDIDATES MAY BE PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSION FOR CONSIDERATION. SO LET ME ASK.

LET ME ASK A A MINOR QUESTION. AND THAT IS I DIDN'T SEE I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU'RE CONTEMPLATING IN THIS TIMELINE THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE COMMUNITY FORUM COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. SO BUT THE ONLY THING YOU LISTED HERE WAS STAKEHOLDER MEETING AT THE VERY OUTSET. SO IF I WAS GUESSING WHERE LIKE COMMUNITY FORUMS WERE TO GO IN THAT PROCESS, I WAS GUESSING IT WOULD EITHER BE IN THE CANDIDATE SCREENING AND EVALUATION STAGE OR THE SELECTION PROCESS, THE FINAL SELECTION PROCESS. BUT I'M ASSUMING THAT IT'S FAIRLY STANDARD WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOUR THREE FINALISTS, THAT THERE'S A PUBLIC FORUM AND NOT SIMPLY A CITY COMMISSION CONVERSATION. CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? YES, MAYOR, COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR PUBLIC POSITIONS, AND WE ALWAYS SEE THE VALUE OF THAT. THERE ARE DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES TO INCLUDE ENGAGEMENT, AND I'M REALLY GOING TO TAKE MY CUES FROM YOU AS MY CLIENT. I'M GOING TO OFFER YOU SOME OPTIONS ABOUT WHEN PROS AND CONS AND WHERE TO BEST DO THAT ENGAGEMENT, AND THEN WE'LL DESIGN THAT PROCESS AROUND IT. BUT I REALLY WANT TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH EACH OF YOU AND THEN CONFER WITH YOUR STAFF AS WELL. GREAT. ANYONE ELSE? GREAT. WELL, THANK YOU FOR COMING. LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS. IT LOOKS SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO SET UP MEETINGS WITH ALL OF US. YOU DON'T LIVE ON FULTON STREET, SO I'M ASSUMING MOST OF THIS IS GOING TO BE BY ZOOM. BUT YEAH, THANK YOU FOR THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE TRIP AND FOR FOR DOING THIS WORK FOR US. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE GOT A PROCESS AND WE'RE OFF TO THE RACES. SO GREAT. THANK YOU ALL.

REALLY APPRECIATE THIS OPPORTUNITY AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH ALL OF YOU. THANK YOU. THIS BRINGS US TO OUR ANOTHER UPDATE ON THE NOISE ORDINANCE CONVERSATION. SO MR.

[2. Update on Public Safety Committee Briefing About Potential Ordinance to Regulate Amplified Sound Near Medical Facilities]

[00:30:03]

YOU DIRECTED US TO DO SOME MORE COMMUNITY OUTREACH AS THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING.

WHEN WE MET, WE DID THAT. WE DID A VIRTUAL LISTENING SESSION. DOCTOR ANDREA RILEY WAS HELPFUL IN LEADING THAT. WE DID A TARGETED APPROACH TO OTHER MEDICAL FACILITIES AND INVITED THEM TO LEARN ABOUT WHY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS, WHAT THE STATE LAW WAS, AND WHAT TYPE OF OPTIONS WERE AVAILABLE. THE GENERAL FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT. FIRST OF ALL, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE 4 OR 5 MEDICAL FACILITIES THAT PARTICIPATED WAS ABOUT THE SAMPLE SIZE THAT THAT WE EXPECTED. THIS ISN'T A BROAD ISSUE THAT'S BEING FELT BY OTHER MEDICAL FACILITIES IN OUR CITY, BUT THEY WERE WARM TO THE IDEA OF REGULATING AMPLIFIED SOUND, TO PROTECT THEIR PATIENTS AND PROTECT THEIR EMPLOYEES FROM PEOPLE MAKING NOISE OR PROTESTING AROUND THEIR FACILITIES. I WOULD SAY THAT WAS THE FEEDBACK THAT I WALKED AWAY FROM THAT VIRTUAL TOWN HALL WITH. WE ALSO HAD A SURVEY THAT WENT OUT, AND AGAIN, DOCTOR RILEY MACKOVIC IS LIKELY BETTER TO GIVE YOU ANALYSIS INTO THOSE SURVEY RESULTS.

THERE WERE, I THINK, 4 OR 5 RESULTS. I ATTACHED THE REPORT TO THIS AGENDA ITEM IF YOU HAVE MORE INTEREST IN THAT. BUT AGAIN. OPEN TO REGULATION, NOT OBJECTING TO THE CONCEPT, CERTAINLY INTERESTED IN PROTECTING PATIENT AND CLIENT PRIVACY, BUT NOT REALLY EXPERIENCING THIS THE SAME WAY THAT THE MEDICAL FACILITY IS DOWN ON CHERRY STREET. WE THEN TOOK THAT REPORT AND THAT INFORMATION AND THE CONCEPT TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, IS THREE ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THERE'S CITIZEN REPRESENTATION THERE.

WE HEARD, I WOULD SAY, STRONG ADVOCACY FROM ONE OF THE CITIZEN REPRESENTATIVES THAT FELT LIKE THIS WAS A GOOD MOVE. THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE OTHER CITIZEN ON THAT PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE THAT I THINK WAS SUPPORTIVE. AND AT LEAST TWO OF THE THREE COMMISSION, THE MAYOR AND ONE OTHER COMMISSIONER SUGGESTED THAT THIS COME BACK TO COUNCIL AND THAT THEY WOULD BE OPEN TO LOOKING AT TAKING THE NEXT STEP TO TO FURTHER REGULATE AMPLIFIED SOUND AROUND MEDICAL FACILITIES. THE STAFF CONCERNS ARE. ONE. THE DEFINITION OF HEALTH CARE FACILITY IS PRETTY BROAD IN OUR CODE OF ORDINANCES RIGHT NOW. AND SO THIS WOULD APPLY TO A LOT OF FACILITIES, INCLUDING, I THINK, DENTAL OFFICES, PHYSICAL THERAPY OFFICES AND OTHER HEALTH CARE TREATMENT FACILITIES THAT EXIST ACROSS OUR CITY. AND LARGE NUMBERS, THEY CERTAINLY DON'T GET THE TYPE OF ACTIVITY THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IS BEING CALLED TO OUR ATTENTION. BUT IF WE WERE TO ADOPT THE SAME DEFINITION FOR HEALTH CARE FACILITY, IT WOULD HAVE A VERY BROAD IMPACT ACROSS OUR CITY, ACROSS THE WARDS, THERE'S ALWAYS A CONCERN WHEN YOU'RE INVITING THE POLICE TO HAVE MORE CONTACT WITH INDIVIDUALS AROUND PROTEST OR FREE SPEECH ACTIVITIES, THAT THAT COULD CAUSE ADDITIONAL TENSIONS AND THERE COULD BE.

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES BY HAVING MORE ORDINANCES THAT INVITE THAT SORT OF CONTACT. ON THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT, IF WE CLEARLY DEFINE THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE AMPLIFIED SOUND WITHIN 100FT, THERE'S THAT CLARITY THAT EXISTS THAT MIGHT HELP US DRAW THOSE LINES. SO WE HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. IF YOU SCROLL UP ON THIS, WHOEVER'S CONTROLLING THE SCREEN JUST A LITTLE BIT, THIS THE THE PROCESS OF CHANGING AN ORDINANCE TAKES SOME TIME. SO IF THE A MAJORITY OF THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ORDINANCE CHANGED DOWN ON THIS SECOND PAGE OF THE MEMO, THERE'S A SAMPLE THAT WE WOULD BRING FORWARD FOR A FIRST READING. THERE'S A 30 DAY WINDOW THAT ALLOWS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

THERE'S A FINAL ADOPTION PROCESS. WE HAVE NOT WE HAVE INTENTIONALLY NOT STARTED THAT PROCESS TODAY. WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE WERE READY TO GET THERE. WE WANTED TO HEAR IF THERE'S AT LEAST FOUR COMMISSIONERS THAT THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT NEXT STEP, THEN WE WILL GET THAT ON A FUTURE AGENDA. I'D INVITE THE CITY MANAGER OR ANY OTHER STAFF THAT HAVE BEEN. THIS HAS REALLY BEEN A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT TO TRY TO THINK THOUGHTFULLY THROUGH THIS AND NOT DO

[00:35:03]

BUT SPECIFICALLY, AS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WAYS TO REDUCE POLICE INTERACTION ON NON VIOLENT TYPES OF OFFENSES. AND, YOU KNOW, FOCUSING ON YOUR EFFORTS OF PREVIOUS DISCUSSION OF DECRIMINALIZATION, I THINK THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD INVITE MORE POLICE CONTACT. AND WE KNOW HOW SENSITIVE INTERACTIONS AROUND PEOPLE WHO ARE EXERCISING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENTS HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST. AND SO WHILE THE OFFICERS WOULD APPRECIATE THE CLARITY IN THE ORDINANCE, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, AS A CITY ATTORNEY HIGHLIGHTED BOTH INTENDED AND UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. WHEN WE START TO MAKE SURE, START MORE ENFORCEMENT AROUND THIS AREA LIKE ANY OTHER ORDINANCE. AND I THINK THAT WAS THE SAME OTHER CONCERNS IN WHICH ORDINANCES WE PUT ON THE BOOKS. SO NOT SURE IF THE THE CHIEF I THINK HE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD. I THINK HE CERTAINLY SAID HE APPRECIATED THE OFFICER'S CLARITY. CHIEF, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? GOOD MORNING. I WILL SAY JUST I HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH MY CENTRAL SERVICE AREA OFFICERS, AND AS FAR AS THE CONCERN, MORE INTERACTION WITH POLICE, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT IS FOR US. IT'S A LOW CONCERN BECAUSE AS OF NOW, WE ARE RESPONDING ON A WEEKLY BASIS, IF NOT MORE, TO THIS LOCATION AND DEALING WITH A SORT OF GRAY AREA. SO THE FEEDBACK INTERNALLY THAT I'VE GOT FROM MY PERSONNEL IS A A MORE BRIGHT LINE RULE OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS CERTAIN BEHAVIOR IS ALLOWED OR IS NOT ALLOWED IS EASIER FOR THE POLICE TO INTERACT WITH INDIVIDUALS THAN DEALING WITH A ORDINANCE WHICH IS MORE GRAY. AS FAR AS HOW LOUD IS A NORMAL CONVERSATION AT 100FT. SO AGAIN, WE STAND READY TO WE WE ARE WILLING TO TO DO OUR JOB IN WHATEVER WAY THE THE CITY COMMISSION DIRECTS US TO. AND SO NOT TAKING A POSITION EITHER WAY, BUT JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT. THANK YOU CHIEF. AND I THINK IF I CAN GO FIRST HERE, I THINK THE QUESTION OF LIKE POLICING NONVIOLENT ACTIVITIES IS A VERY BROAD CONVERSATION BECAUSE OF COURSE, LOTS OF TRAFFIC STOPS FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY. YOU KNOW, THE CLASSIC CRACK TAILLIGHT STOP ISN'T BECAUSE A CRACK TAIL LIGHTS AN ACT OF VIOLENCE. SO THE THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW WE HOW WE DO POLICING AND THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THOSE KINDS OF INTERACTIONS, I THINK IS, IS FAR, FAR HIGHER, THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER. THIS IS A VERY MUCH SMALLER CONVERSATION THAN THAT.

I WOULD WANT TO REITERATE WHAT SO AS AS THE STRIPPED DOWN LANGUAGE THAT YOU HAVE THERE, CITY ATTORNEY, I THINK I'VE SAID SEVERAL TIMES THAT, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD WELCOME AN ORDINANCE WHICH EXPLICITLY SAID A FIRST OFFENSE SIMPLY GETS EXPLAINED WITH THE RULES OF THE ROAD ARE SO JUST SO THE FIRST TIME AN OFFICER SAW AN INDIVIDUAL, OFFICERS CAN ASK PEOPLE TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. SO IF BOB SMITH'S USING A MEGAPHONE, YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, BOB, HERE'S THE CITY ORDINANCE. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT. SECOND OFFENSE COULD ESCALATE INTO CIVIL INFRACTIONS, BUT I ALSO WOULD LIKE SOMETHING TAILORED LANGUAGE THAT WOULD PREVENT THIS EXPLICITLY PREVENT THIS EVER BECOMING A MISDEMEANOR OFFENSE. AND SO THAT'S NOT IN THIS LANGUAGE. THE OTHER THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD WELCOME. SO SEPARATING THE QUESTION OF WHETHER WE DO THIS OR NOT, WHICH I THINK WE HAVE TO DECIDE FIRST, BUT I AT LEAST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY HEALTH CARE FACILITY OTHER THAN AND SO IN WITHIN THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, SPECIFICALLY PEEL, PEEL OUT THE THINGS THAT THAT WE DON'T CONSIDER HEALTH CARE FACILITIES. SO DENTISTS OFFICES PT AND IF YOU HAD A LIST OF THINGS THAT WE COULD SPECIFICALLY SAY OTHER THAN THOSE, WE DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE WHAT WE DEFINE AS A HEALTH CARE ORDINANCE GENERALLY. BUT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS STATUTE, WE COULD PULL SOME OF THOSE THINGS OUT. AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE PRODUCTIVE.

THAT'S THAT'S DRAFTING CONVERSATION, BUT AT LEAST WANT TO POINT THAT OUT BEFORE WE MAKE OUR DECISION ABOUT WHETHER THERE'S THERE'S WILL TO MOVE FORWARD ON THE GENERAL IDEA.

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RIGHT? I, I HAVE ISSUES WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDER RESOURCED, NEED HELP GOING TO A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN RECEIVE THOSE SERVICES, BEING SHAMED AND DEGRADED AND DISRESPECTED. YOU CATCH MORE FLIES OR MORE BEES WITH HONEY, FLIES WITH HONEY, RIGHT. AND SO DOING THAT AND THEY'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING. I LIKE THE 100FT. I, I STRUGGLE WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE FEE. HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, I, I WOULD THINK THAT IN THE POLICING ASPECT OF IT, THEY HAVE A MODICUM OF. USING DISCRETION, RIGHT. AND SAYING, LISTEN, THIS IS WHAT YOU'VE DONE. YOU CAN'T BE HERE. THAT'S WHERE YOU GOT TO BE. GO THERE WITHOUT SLAPPING SOMEONE A TICKET. EVERY TIME. I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN, RIGHT? ESPECIALLY AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE TOWARDS NOW MORE COMMUNITY POLICING, WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT IN THE STREET THAT KNOW THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT KNOW SOMEBODY'S NAME, THAT CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION, THAT CAN DEFUZE THE SITUATION. AND AS FAR AS IT, YOU KNOW, THE VAGUENESS OF THE STATEMENT, HEALTH CARE FACILITIES, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, A DENTIST'S OFFICE THAT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, PROTESTED AGAINST FOR PUTTING A FILLING IN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD NECESSARILY CARE. YOU HAVEN'T MET MY COUSINS, PROBABLY ONLY YOUR COUSINS. SO I DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I, I DON'T SEE THE, THE NECESSARY OF PICKING THAT PIECE APART BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO HARM THEM. RIGHT. IT'S ONLY GOING TO PROVIDE A PROTECTION FOR THEM SHOULD THAT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. SHOULD, YOU KNOW THE ONE BLACK DENTIST IN THIS CITY GET PROTESTED AGAINST BECAUSE SHE GIVES PEOPLE TONGUE SCRAPERS? RIGHT. SO I GUESS I MY ONLY ISSUE WOULD BE PEOPLE GETTING $100 TICKET FOR CROSSING THAT 100 AND BEING ON 90. I GOT AN ISSUE RIGHT NOW JUST, YOU KNOW, OF SOME FEET FOR SOME THINGS, RIGHT? AND I'M LIKE, YEAH, COME ON. RIGHT. 1010, TEN, TEN INCHES, TEN FEET, SIR. STEP BACK. THIS IS YOUR LINE. BUT I DO AGREE THAT PEOPLE DESERVE TO HAVE THEIR RIGHT TO THEIR CHOICES, AND THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OUTCOMES OF THOSE CHOICES AND SHAMING PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY PRIMARILY WOMEN, BECAUSE THAT'S WHO'S GOING IS DISRESPECTFUL AND THEY'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING. OTHER THOUGHTS, COMMISSIONER ROBINSON? YEAH, THANKS, MAYOR. I SIT ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE AND WAS THE THE INDIVIDUAL WHO EXPRESSED SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THOSE. AND I DO THINK I STILL HAVE THOSE. I THINK EVEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT CAME BEFORE US AT PUBLIC SAFETY AND WE'VE TRIED TO BE CLEAR THAT, LIKE WE WANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, MOST RESPECTFUL OF PEOPLE'S FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND FREE SPEECH AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT EVEN AT THAT BODY, I THINK THE CONVERSATION VERY QUICKLY STARTED BROADENING, AND THERE WAS JUST CONSTANT UNDERTONES ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING SAID AND NOT NECESSARILY WHERE. AND I THINK THAT'S MY MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT. I DON'T KNOW,

[00:45:05]

WE'VE HAD OTHER NOISE CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE'VE WORKED ON FOR FIVE PLUS YEARS.

YOU WERE A PART OF THAT AS WELL WITH A BUSINESS OWNER ALSO IN THE SECOND WARD. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK MY, YOU KNOW, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THIS LANGUAGE. I'M THE INDIVIDUAL WHO, YOU KNOW, I THINK BROUGHT THIS INITIALLY TO CITY MANAGER AND TO YOUR OFFICE. AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW MAYOR, YOU THOSE ARE SOME OF YOUR NEIGHBORS IN THIS AREA AS WELL. I YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO CRIMINALIZE ACTIVITY. I ALSO WANT TO CURB ACTIVITY. I THINK THE THE REALITY IS WHEN SOMEBODY GOES TO ME IS, I THINK WHY WE LOOKED AT THESE SPECIFIC ORDINANCES, THESE BUBBLE ONES, ARE RELATED TO HEALTH CARE, IS BECAUSE WE HAD THIS IDEA THAT WHEN YOU'RE GOING INTO, YES, THAT THERE ARE SOUND ISSUES ALL AROUND, TYPICALLY THE SOUND LIKE WOULD BE MOVING AROUND. SO LIKE YOU MIGHT START HERE ON THE CALDER, BUT THEN YOU MIGHT GO ALL AROUND AND YOU MIGHT END UP IN ANOTHER PART OF TOWN. YOU'RE NOT SORT OF STATIONARY, BUT THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE STATIONARY AT A PLACE WHERE INDIVIDUALS WOULD RECEIVE CARE, REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER THE CARE IS, IS THAT THAT IS A THAT IS NOT THE KIND OF ENVIRONMENT THAT WE WANT TO PROMOTE. AND SO I'M SUPPORTIVE OF IT THE WAY IT IS. IF THERE'S OTHER COLLEAGUES WHO WANT TO ENSURE MORE, YOU KNOW, ANY LESS CRIMINALIZATION, I WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT THAT AS WELL. I CAN'T REMEMBER THE OTHER THING THAT YOU SAID, MAYOR, IN TERMS OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD TAKE YOU TO SUPPORT IT. SO I MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE WHO IS SUPPORTING IT ON, ON THE FACE, BUT I'D BE OPEN TO MY COLLEAGUES TO, YOU KNOW, TO RECOGNIZE THAT AS WELL.

BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NEIGHBORS IN THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE CITY HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. AND SO I'M GLAD WE'RE AT THIS POINT. THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK FROM MR. DAVIS AND THE CHIEF FOR PROVIDING THAT FEEDBACK AS WELL.

SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS IS A REGULAR OCCURRENCE, RIGHT? SO THE CHIEF SAID, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK, AND I THINK HAVING A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY ON THIS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. THANK YOU. LET'S SEE, I THINK WE SHOULD HEAR FROM EVERYONE SINCE WE'RE SORT OF POLLING. SO COMMISSIONER AND COMMISSIONER KNIGHT, I MEAN PARDON ME, COMMISSIONER KILGORE WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT. THANK YOU. MAYOR, I AM SUPPORTIVE OF AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD HELP CREATE CLARITY FOR ENFORCEMENT. I AGREE THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE CRIMINALIZING IT. SO ANY, YOU KNOW, REVIEW OR ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE, I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT AND OR EVEN TO THE POINT OF PUTTING ON OUR AGENDA THAT WE LOOK AT OUR WHOLE LIST OF CIVIL INFRACTIONS AND REVIEW THAT IN THE COMING MONTHS AND YEAR. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS WE'RE TAKING A BALANCED APPROACH AND BALANCING THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, AS WELL AS PATIENT PRIVACY AND CARE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, I THINK THIS IS A REASONABLE THING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER. YES, I CONCUR. OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK YOU I THINK I COUNTED FIVE IN SUPPORT OF PROCEEDING.

SO THANK YOU, CITY ATTORNEY. COMMISSIONER PERDUE, I'M SO SORRY. YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS THIS QUESTION STARTED WITH A VERY SPECIFIC SCENARIO IN HERITAGE HILL RELATED TO FOLKS GOING TO SEEK CARE AND FEELING HARASSED AND NEIGHBORS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SEEING

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